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Isaac Reinwand – Deorr Kunz case

Vernal Deorr Kunz, Jessica Mitchell – Reverse Speech of 2016 interview

Jessica Mitchell 911 call – Deorr Kunz

Here is a selection of reversals from the first 5 minutes of Isaac’s interview.

RS: Yeah unreliable. Someone near/there, getting(?) life  or

Yeah unreliable. Someone near get/need a knife  

There is uncertainty over some words. It is important to investigate the alternatives. Isaac is responding to a question about his impression of Jessica and Vernal when he gives this reversal. In the first version, it is ‘getting’, or ‘giving’ or ‘needing’. In the second version, it is ‘get a knife’ or ‘need a knife’. You need to weigh up what it sounds like in the overall utterance, and what it sounds like as a single word. Of course, in forward speech, when listening to an isolated word, you can find it doesn’t quite sound like what you know the person is saying, which you have gathered from a macro listening using grammar, syntactic, and contextual clues. Yet, at the same time, you can’t always trust a macro listening, as what you initially thought something was, turns out to be something else. When there is uncertainty, you need to look at its grammatic and syntactic suitability, and its contextual appropriacy, yet at the same time, guard against accepting what you want to hear, or expect to hear. If it were ‘giving’ or ‘needing’, it remains vague. ‘Getting life’ as in life in prison is less vague and more contextually appropriate. However, once again, one needs to guard against wanting to hear something. If is were ‘get a knife’ or ‘need a knife’, it could reveal:

  • someone near an unreliable person should protect themselves, or alternatively, ought to use it,
  • someone actually got knifed or will get knifed by an unreliable person, or
  • someone near and the unreliable person is one and the same, and ought to be knifed.

There are other reversals that indicate Isaac is critical of someone in the group.

Immediately after giving the reversal as he was describing them as an average family, he stated that he ‘trusted Bob though’, and gave what could be another reversal which sounds something like:

You were involved, destruct shit  

The [b] sounds in ‘Bob’ take on enough of a fricative quality to accept the possibility of [v] sounds in ‘involved’. [d] at the end of ‘involved’ quite naturally disappears to a certain extent before consonants in following words, and of course, does so with the [d] in ‘destruct’. I initially thought that it might have been ‘destruction’ with a loss of the [n]; however, there is a [t], and I have documented it as it sounds – ‘destruct shit’. This, of course, can be coincidental-sounding gibberish. One does not have to, nor shouldn’t just accept everything that may sounds like language. If this section was valid (and remember, that is not necessarily so), who is Isaac referring to then? Vernal or Bob, or someone else?

RS: The fun’s over, I’ve said it; I do not tell him the fun’s over  

Isaac was saying that Vernal Deorr and Jessica Mitchell decided to go down to the store to get gas, but when they got there it was closed. At that point, he gives the reversal. This appears to be what is going through his subconscious in response to his experiences or beliefs regarding what he is speaking about. There is a conflicting statement. One voice states the fun’s over and claims it has been said, and another denies saying anything. What ‘fun’ refers to here, is open to interpretation. For example, something said in response to deciding to get gas, drive all the way down, then finding out it was to no avail (as in fun and games). Alternatively, when one states ‘the fun’s over, they are saying that someone is caught out.

‘over’ lacks an obvious [v] in both times.The first one is really “oh’ra”, while the second is a bit closer with [w]. Nevertheless, I conclude that they are intended to be the word in question.

RS: Lies they grow; he’s dick satan 

Isaac says that when he got up, Jessica, Deorr and Vernal were planning to go and get gas. At the point where he mentions the three names he gives the reversal. It’s possible it may not be ‘lies’. The initial consonant is open to interpretation. It is a reasonable possibility. As often occurs in RS, [t] is glottalised rather than alveolar, and this occurs in ‘satan’. Who is he referring to as dick satan? Vernal? It is also possible that a subconscious aspect may be referring to the speaker himself. If so, it would be an aspect of Isaac that has dislike for Isaac. The pronoun may prove important in this regard in deciding this (such as ‘he’ rather than ‘you’).

RS: No, I don’t need tremors (driver seen no-one)

Isaac is talking about getting up and using the restroom then going back to bed (until midday). He spoke about Bob having whiskey, but said Bob doesn’t drink it; he brought it for others. One would surmise that Isaac was drinking heavily, so he went back to bed and slept the morning.

‘I’ is connected to ‘no’ by [w] which is normal linguistically. Perception of [d] in ‘don’t’ occurs, however sound is more like [n].

No, I don’t need tremors 

Immediately following the reversal, he appears to say a word like ‘driver’, although, once again, the [v] is not evident, and then ‘seen no-one’, with [s] sounding like [z]. Of course, one can’t expect RS sounds to be perfectly articulated – they aren’t in forward speech. If ‘seen no-one’ is valid, perhaps it simply refers to him going back to bed, and not seeing others for a while.

RS: And there’s Dennille; so we, we get high  

A person’s subconscious will respond to triggers and bring up past experiences and internalisations, or it may respond directly to what it happening at the time of speaking. Of course, there was no-one called Dennille (and we do have to be careful when an unknown name arises as it may not be part of a real reversal). If the Dennille section is relevant, it is more likely a trigger to a past experience or something internalised. Alternatively, some of it may be connected (getting high) to what was happening at the time (the night before that morning).

‘high’ is strongly connected to [t] before it, and this reduces [h] initial; however, I conclude that it is more likely ‘get high’ than not.

RS: You said/say Bob  

The interviewer asked if Bob Walton had any whiskey, and Isaac first stated he might have had a couple, then immediately changed his mind and said Bob doesn’t drink anymore. At the point where he changed his mind, he gave the reversal. It is like his own subconscious remarked or complained to him about what he said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other links

Vernal Deorr Kunz, Jessica Mitchell – Reverse Speech of 2016 interview

Investigation of audio samples related to Deorr Kunz case – Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell

Isaac Reinwand – Deorr Kunz case

These are a few of the potential reversals I have located in the 911 call of Jessica Mitchell.

1.  There is uncertain language with the following reversal – whether it is ‘baby’ (2nd [b] not clear) and what the mystery word (?) could be. Also, it appears that the reversal may not begin at ‘the baby’, and that there is a syllable before it which could be ‘hide’. However, I will first look at the reversal without it.

(a) RS: the baby; why hurt you; (tag?) get under

FS: Mitchell: He’s got shaggy blond hair

Operator: How tall is he? Hello?

Mitchell: I’m not exactly sure how, he’s about thr ….

the baby [he’s ab]out – It is possibly ‘baby’; however the consonants are open to question. The initial [b] actually comes from the onset of [s] before any frication – it may be heard as [b], but not conclusively; the second [b] is less clear, coming at [h] – an assumption is being made, therefore; a short sound at the onset of [h] gives the vowel ending in reverse.

Why hurt you? – exact[ly sure how]

Why [how]

hurt [sure h]ow – where [s] is in ‘sure’, one can perceive the [t] ending for ‘hurt’. Between exact[ly] and [s]ure there is a sibilant sound that can be considered extraneous.

you – exact[ly] – ‘you’ is gained from a combination of the vowel and the roundness of articulation occurring as in the neighbouring sound (sure in FS, hurt in RS).

I have included the syllable before ‘get under’; there is uncertainty, however.

(tag) – e[xact]ly – On close listening it can be like ‘tag’ or ‘cud’ (assuming an alveolar position before the [g] that follows). Both can be heard, and this is probably due to [ct] in the FS.  Grammatically and contextually, the most sensible word would be one starting with [t] – ‘tag’ would be one choice, even ‘tie’.

get under [I’m not ex]actly – [g] comes from onset of [x] (egs); [n] from [n] in the FS; the [d] is an overall perception of the word ‘under’ – where [m] is, [n] can be heard which is articulated strongly.

Of course, there is no certainty that ‘the baby’ is genuine.

(b) Before it there is a word sounding like ‘ide’ which could be ‘hide’. This is uncertain.

RS: Hide the baby  

So, if ‘baby’ is there, we have the mother’s subconscious saying ‘why hurt you’, so this may refer to Deorr. If so, the subconscious doesn’t want the child to be hurt, and if ‘hide’ is indeed there, then the child should be hidden (but then, are we talking about hiding a child that is now alive, or now dead?). Then again, the hurting may be a semi-autonomous aspect of JM talking about JM herself being hurt. Here, the subconscious may want the child out of the way of harm, and ‘get under’ may refer to a place to hide and protect herself and the child.

(c) The next reversal in the FS section appears to be either:

RS: There is no de-icing out there/There is no de-icing. Oh dear.  

FS: And he’s got shaggy blond hair

De-icing typically refers to the removal of ice. Alternative, one may entertain the removal of the drug ice from the system. As it was summer and there was no ice, the normal term is strange in the context.

There are a number of FS consonants that have disappeared in order to create this reversal, or ones that have appeared.

There’s – blon[d hair] – on close examination the word is difficult to ascertain, and could even sound somewhat like ‘prays’, however, like in forward speech, words can sound distorted, and understanding of what one says comes from big picture listening. Most likely it is ‘there’s.

no [blon]d – [b] disappears in the FS.

de-icing [shaggy] – [c] comes from [sh] in the FS; [g] in the FS disappears; a perception of [ng] occurs at the glottal/velar [t] at the end of ‘got’ in the FS, and up to the beginning of [sh]; [d] is perceivable at shagg[y] before the onset of [b] in the FS.

Oh dear/out there [and he’s] – [d] or [th] comes from the [s] – although there is an obvious [z] sound, there is enough force to give an impression that one or the other consonant is there; out/oh comes behind got’ – the [g] disappears and the lack of full articulation of [t] also causes its disappearance. One can perceive [t] where [g] is.

(d) The operator said ‘hello’? waiting for Jessica Mitchell to respond. She began talking at the same time. I will not try to record her words as it is very difficult to pick up. In reverse, it sounds like she says:

RS: Here, raping people

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2. The entire eight second section of forward speech appears to reverse to language.

(a) To spin an axe, probably indicates throwing it, and idiomatically, strong anger.

RS: You screw me. Axe, spin it  

FS: It’s so turn right after like the general store and the post office in Leadore [and it’s at Timber Creek].

You – C[reek] – [k] disappears.

screw me [Timber Cr]eek – [t] in the FS creates a little frication, however, does not get in the way, so ‘me’’ is reasonable. [r] I the FS after [c] creates enough frication to perceive a possible [s] in ‘screw’.

Axe – [ks] sound in [x] comes from the [s] in ‘it’s’ and velar constriction at the onset of [a] in ‘at’; [t] in ‘at’ does not cause any issue.

spin it [and it’s] – [t] in FS can be perceived as [p].

(b) It is interesting that the following reversal occurs at ‘in Leadore’.

FS:

Hurled on it

FS: It’s so turn right after like the [general store and the post office [in Leadore] and it’s at Timber Creek.

(c) The remaining reversals run together without pause. There may be four statements in all. I have separated the first two from the last two, and will separate again to reveal individual comments.

The following sub-section runs together and can sound like ‘Take parts off but there torn it’. If you isolate ‘there’ and separate it from [f] before it, it is ‘know’. Of course, it does not necessarily mean that it is meant to be ‘know’, as isolating words in forward speech does not always reveal what the speaker was saying – we need to rely on larger speech chunks to understand a speaker.

If genuine, we need to ask what parts are being referred to, removed from what, what was torn, and who knows it? It may be useful in referring to the next reversal following this one for insight, as it runs on without pause.

RS: Take parts off. But know torn it

FS: It’s so turn right after like the [general store and the post office] in Leadore and it’s at Timber Creek.

But know torn it

Take o[ffice] – a perceivable alveolar stop [t] occurs at [c]; [ff] disappears allowing perception of a near velar articulation [k].

parts – po[st o]ff – [p] is heard before the onset of [f] in the FS.

off [po]st – [p] forms a fricative [f].

But know – s[tore ‘n th]e post – right after the frication of the [ff] and part of the frication of [th] in ‘the’, one gets a short sound, which in the context of the other words, may represent ‘but’ (it could begin with [b]); know occurs at [tore ‘n], ending at the release of [t] in the FS.

torn it [general] store – an approximate [t] occurs around the [l] and the [s] in ‘store’ in the FS; [g] remains ‘open’ in the reverse, and allows a sense of a [t] in ‘it’.

(d) The rest of the run-on reversal is below. Letting someone/some people out and a door sticking may refer to a vehicle.

RS: You let the other side ou(t). ? door stick

FS: [It’s so turn right after like the] general store

You let the li[ke the] – [l] in reverse occurs at [th] in the FS, and [th] in reverse occurs at [k]!

other – afte[r li]ke the general – this makes the assumption that the level of frication and force of articulation can be accepted as [th] in reverse.

side ou(t) [right af]ter – assumption of ‘out’ in the context, though there is non-articulation of [t] at the end; [s] in RS comes at [f] in FS; [d] in RS comes at [t] in FS.

? [turn off] – we have a mystery word. It sounds like ‘farner’s’, or ‘parner’s’ which is most likely nothing. However, in the context all of the language occurring around it, it should be noted.

door stick [it’s so] turn right – perceptible [d] in reverse occurs between ‘so’ and ‘turn’; assumption of a [k] ending in RS is reasonable.

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3. The following section contains 4 to 5 reversals. They appear to use the word ‘fight’, ‘warrior’, and ‘skills’, which seems to indicate a pattern in JM’s reversals.

FS: JM: Um. I’m uh actually camping in Leadore, just outside of Leadore, um, my two year old son, we can’t find him.

Operator: What’s your name?

JM: Jessica

Operator: Pard .. Jessica who?

JM: Mitchell

Operator: How long has he been missing?

JM: About four(?) …

(a) One should be careful about such short reversals. It increases the chance of coincidence. Context is important when deciding to include them. Fight’ is produced again seconds later behind a different FS word. Therefore, this is particularly worth noting.

RS: Her fight 

Her fight [Jessica] – ‘her’ comes at [a] in ‘Jessica’; [f] comes at [ss]; [t] final in the RS comes at [j] in the FS.

(b) RS: Now fight you … (not) 

There is a syllable before ‘now’ which I have cut off and not included. This could be ‘but’. The ending of ‘fight/find’ is inconclusive. If it is ‘fight’, the fact that ‘fight’ is used twice within seconds behind completely different words in the FS is interesting, however, and worth noting.

In regard to the ending, sometimes the word ‘not’ is heard behind ‘um’, and of course, we should not just accept it as being language. Of course, one can also hear /m/ rather than /n/. However, I have included the potential negative in this and the next reversal which occurred seconds away (it doesn’t occur anywhere else in the call) on the chance it means something. But, we should not assume it does. We must remember that what may appear to be language behind FS can be coincidental.

Now, fight you [we can’t find]

  • You comes at ‘we’
  • [c] disappears enough in the FS to allow the perception of an alveolar [t] ending in the RS
  • now comes off f[ind] in the FS

not – although ‘um’ has an [m], [n] is also perceivable in the RS.

(c) In the following reversal, the initial sound can be like [b]. However, it is possible that the word expressed is ‘warrior’s’ both linguistically and contextually in light of other reversals mentioning fighting and using skills (see next reversal). As mentioned above, the negative may be extraneous to the main reversal section.

Warrior’s camp … (I’m not)  

Warrior’s [two year ol]d – [w] occurs at the [l] in the FS; [io] comes at [wo y] in the FS; [s] comes at the [t] in the FS.

camp [my] two – [c] occurs between ‘my’ and the onset of [t] in ‘two’

I’m not [um] – [n] is perceivable just before the onset of [m] in the FS; [I] in ‘I’m’ comes at an extra vowel uttered after ‘um’.

(d) RS: And use my skills  

FS: Ac[tually camping]

And use – cam[ping] – [n] from [n] in the FS; [p] becomes a fricative and allows perception of [s] in the RS.

my [cam]ping – [c] disappears enough to allow perception of ‘my’.

skills – ac[tually] camping – [sk] occurs before the onset of [c] in ‘camping’ at [y] in ‘actually’ – [k] is not obvious on close examination; here we need to rely on a wider listening to ascertain that [k] is at least a possibility. Note that articulation is moving towards [c] in ‘camping’, so this may be possible.

In using ‘skills’, we might ask is this just a reference to the fact that they are camping, and so certain skills are required not ordinarily used at home? And, does the possibility of ‘warrior’ also just bring out a feeling within her about camping? Or can we relate it to the context of the other reversals to do with fighting?

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4. JM describes the child’s clothes to the operator. It appears that she uses the word ‘knife’ twice in the 6 seconds.

(a) In the first reversal, she appears to say ‘jumper’, and interestingly this subconscious voice uses a British accent, possibly from the West Country. Contextually, jumper can be seen as reasonable, in that she is speaking about clothes. In this reversal, ‘knife’ would be a verb.

RS: Right, knife who made this jump-er   

FS: a blue um [pair like pajama pants , and] a camel jacket.

Right [and] [r] is perceivable as the [n] disappears in the FS; sense of [t] ending.

knife [pant]s –  a sense of [f] occurs at [p] where the stop has disappears and is aspirated

who made this [pajama] [d th] comes at [j] in the FS; [p] disappears, and the frication at the end gives a sense of [s].

jump-er [pair like] – some frication occurring around [k] in the FS, can some sense of an affricate, although there is also [y] occurring as the vowel moves to [k] in ‘like’; [p] disappears in the FS.

(b) In the next one, [f] is less obvious in ‘knife’, however, it is possible.

RS: Excite – your knife hit  

FS: [a camel jacket]

Excite [jacket] – acceptable [t] at [j] in the FS; [ex] comes from [ke] in the FS + a sibilance that occurs before [k] in ‘jacket’.

your – cam[el] – the high front position of the tongue produces [y].

knife hit [a cam]el – [m] can also be heard as [n]; the [c] ha becomes an aspirated frication – an assume is made here that it is meant to be ‘knife’; [t] ending for ‘hit’ acceptable.

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Other links

Vernal Deorr Kunz, Jessica Mitchell – Reverse Speech of 2016 interview

Jessica Mitchell 911 call – Deorr Kunz

Isaac Reinwand July 2016

Here are some reversals from Vernal Kunz and Jesica Mitchell concerning the disappearance of their child, Deorr Kunz.

It is important to be careful about making claims of harm by others using RS. We are dealing with a person’s subconscious. Our subconscious is full of memories and experiences of our lives. All kinds of things exist in our subconscious – critical thought, hatefulness, anger, love, kindness, etc. And, all kinds of meanderings of mind occur – look at the strangeness and incoherency of dreams. See how images and words around you trigger a conceptualisation within your subconscious that is not actually about what is happening in your environment. If the subconscious expresses ideas and concepts, well, that’s true for the person’s subconscious, and it can, and does have an influence on the person’s external behaviour and their actions in life – it all depends on counter forces within and without, whether certain thoughtforms of the subconscious become fully actualised in the external world.

With Reverse Speech,  we are looking at what is going on within a person’s subconscious/unconscious. Leaving the concept of a higher self, soul or spirit to the side for now, where there might be metaphorical language, when dealing with the subconscious, are we dealing with an integrated system that can be viewed in the singular, and consider that what is uttered in reverse is the Truth, like a higher being, or are we dealing with a collection of semi-autonomous entities formed throughout the person’s life, such as the critic, the pusher, the controller, etc etc? And, is the ‘Truth’, the truth of whichever one is communicating in reverse at that time?

Some of the reversals I put will up in this particular project over time will not necessarily be so obvious. Some will most likely not be reversals, but be coincidental only. The focus of the project is on what might be included or at least noted in an analysis of a criminal case. It is also an exploration of the characteristics of RS, and what may be reasonable and what may not be reasonable.

So, there will be a range of offerings of examples. Some will be acceptable as reversals, some not so acceptable, yet interesting enough to note. There will also be examples where Kunz and Mitchell are speaking over each other and producing reversals at the same time.

1. RS: Look in a crevasse

FS: Yeah we (decided we were going to go a little) exploring; he was going to be good with grandpa down by the campfire

RS: He’s pit fill/kill

FS: We weren’t more than (probably fifty), fifty yards away.

He’s pit – f[ifty] – short [f] provides perception of [p], [t] provides sibilant.

fill – [probably f]ifty – ‘probably’ has become highly distorted in the forward speech providing the ‘ill’ in the RS word. A general listening can give [kill]; however, [fill] occurs on a closer listening.

Look in – g[onna go al]ittle

a crevasse – [decided we’re go]ing to – ‘decided’ has become distorted in the forward speech providing perception of ‘asse’; articulation of [w] here provides for [v]; [g] provides for [c].

NOTE: something approximating the words ‘throw you’ occur between the two reversals; but it can also sound like ‘grow’.

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2. Here, Kunz’s subconscious states that he is ‘a thermal one’. The word ‘thermal’, to do with heat, may be a word worthy of noting. He then asks the question. Is or was he hid?, as though he doesn’t know. The first audio has the two comments separated, but they occur together one after the other. Note after he states the first section, there is something wrong with his throat. In the second part he tries to speak while struggling with his throat, as if he has breathed in smoke from a fire.

RS: I’m a thermal one; is/was he hid/hit?  

FS: that he isn’t no longer up the mountain

I’m the [the mou]ntain –

thermal – [longer up] – [th] and [m] are perceivable in place of [p] and [n] in the FS.

one [no]

Is/Was he – [he is]n’t – this could also be meant to be ‘was’. Between the two comments, at the start of this section is an [n] from ‘isnt’ in the FS. We can consider this as extraneous to the comments.

hid [that h] – it is possible this could also be meant to be ‘hit’.

Joining the reversal at the start are words ‘mean it’; there appears to be a word before, but it is unknown. Here is the reversal with ‘mean it’ included. 

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3. During the 15 minute interview Kunz expresses his exasperation about the rumours going around. Two reversals (no. 3 & 4) were found that link to this. This one shows concern about the use of the internet by people to discuss and make claims.

RS: So we’ve searched net, seeing if they’re gonna start thread  

FS: Salmon Search and Rescue, to see what their thoughts on everything is, and trust me with such a small area, 175 people …

A couple of potential reversals were found before and after this section

  • Universe – you’re a higher alarm (included in audio)
  • Firm against (not included)

So we’ve – [me with] – The [th] in the FS has sibilance; the bilabial [m] provides adequate perception of the labial [v].

searched net – [and trust] – initial [s] in RS comes from [st] in FS where [t] has disappeared naturally as it does in FS. [ch] comes [tr]; ‘net’ comes from ‘and’.

seeing if – th[ing is] – lack of [f] in the RS may be OK in natural speech processes as it moves quickly to [th]. This is elision.

their gonna – [on every th]ing – ‘their’ is quite obvious from the FS; ‘gonna’ is more problematic. The [v] is weakly articulated in the FS, which is usual when it is not stressed, and this is OK. An obvious [r] remains, and on close listening, this is what is can be heard rather than [g]. This is actually OK, as in natural speech spoken at a faster pace, the place of articulation in the velar position could become more approximate resulting in an [r] influencing it. A general overall, ‘macro’ listening gives the impression. We must use an overall listening to understand what the person is saying; this is normal. Therefore, ‘gonna’ may be acceptable.

start – [thoughts] – within bounds

thread – [their th]oughts – OK

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4. RS: Snared, their fear of net   

FS and very very advanced

Snared – a[dvanced] – [v] disappears, final [d] in FS weakens enough to provide a perception of a sibilant initial

they’re – v[ery ad]vanced –

fear of – [very v]ery – adequate approximation of words

net [and] – appropriate perception of [t] at end of RS

Depends who their refers to, and also who is ‘snared’ by it. The reversal may refer to others, or it may be a semi-autonomous personality aspect of Kunz commenting that he (and his wife etc) fear the goings on over the internet regarding them and the case.

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5. Here is one place where Kunz is talking about people making unwanted comments and claims. The reversal indicates fraudulent/deceptive behaviour.

RS Boy in a counterfeit.   

FS: If you’re not going to help, please don’t

Boy [help] Some aspiration occurs

in a counterfeit [If you’re not gonna]

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6. RS: Back up. But every guidebook is taken.

FS: And I’ve just come down to get any resource I ca[n get to go back up today]

back up – [back up]

But every – [right up] – ‘every’ is quite normal in speech processes of natural speech

guidebook is [to go back] – the loss of the alveolar [d] position in ‘guide’ is a normal linguistic process.

taken [and get]

Deciding what exactly the first section is will depend on the whole reversal. It also depends on the focus of ‘taken’ – is the focus on that there are no guidebooks left for him to use, or does it imply that there a lot of people out looking for the child (every guidebook being used)? Including ‘back up’ shows  a contrast. Although he may want to go back up, at the same time, there could be self-doubt about his competency up the mountains in searching, or an aspect of him doesn’t want to go and is trying to sabotage him.

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7. RS: Sheriff bruff /Brough you’re found in everything. If he does know, move it.    

FS: those r[idges from one side of it and the other not very far apart].

Sheriff [apart] – not a completely clear example, but possible.

bruff your’e – v[ery far] – perception of a [b] is possible. However, this is an estimate of the sounds. As to what the word is supposed to be, that could be another question …

found – [not v]ery

in everything [and the other and are]

If he does know [one side of i]t –

move it – r[idges from]

There is obviously no-one called Sheriff Brough, if it is ‘bruff”, the reversal may read as – “Sheriff – bruff – you’re found in everything – If he does know, move it”. I have found that RS is often a series of comments rather than one single comment.

A ‘bruff’ person tends to act in a rough manner. The reversal would suggest a perception that the sheriff is all over. The question here is, if he knows something, what is to be moved?

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8. RS: police, if he bust, now I’ll bury case/’n I’ll bury case ……. or, police, if he does know, bury case 

FS: The reservoir itself isn’t but maybe a few feet deep. You can [see, if you’re up on top you can see the] bottom of the centre; if you’re looking at the middle of the reservoir, you can see the bottom of it.

The above reversals represent potentialities of the language. There is what may be language before ‘police’, however I have not included it because of the lack of clarity of the preceding ‘word’. This could be a problem, because, ‘police’ may not be the beginning of a statement, but the end of it, and not having the full reversal may affect meaning.

Version 1: police, if he bust, now/’n I’ll bury case 

At ‘if’ there is a frication that could be considered to be an /f/; however after, there is a roundedness following that gives some sense of ‘ui’ – I have retained the word ‘he’ as the documentation, nevertheless. /b/ comes from the /p/ in FS ‘top’. There is some frication from the FS /t/ that gives some sense of /s/.  Therefore, I have documented ‘bust’ as one possibility. As there is language that immediately follows it is quite natural that the word hasn’t received full articulation in its final sound. The next word(s) may be heard as ‘now’ or ‘n I’ll. /b/ in ‘bury’ comes from the /p/ in FS ‘up’. /c/ is perceivable from the movement from ‘see’ to ‘if’ with the ramping of acoustic energy in reverse,

Version 2: police, if he does know, bury case 

Speech perception can cause one to hear /d/ instead of /b/ to produce ‘does’. Rather than ‘now’ or ‘I’ll’, the word becomes ‘know’ and goes on the end of the first clause rather than the beginning of the last clause. Interestingly, in the previous reversal above about the ‘sheriff’, he appears to say ‘if he does know’ behind different FS words.

In the wash up, there is ambiguity in this reversal.

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8. RS: Nail mouth; his nerve  

FS: A lot of people are praying for you. they’re concern ….

Kunz: [Friends and family] ….

Kunz may be concerned about what people may say (Note: JM appears to say in reverse – I meet her).

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9. Some of the following reversals have problems linguistically; however, I have included them as

  • there is a group of language-like utterances within a short 11 second section of speech.
  • although problematic, in an analysis at least some may have potential worth as more substantial evidence is gained.
  • they make for an interesting discussion point as to possible characteristics of RS.

The forward speech is: 

Kunz (JDK): Were looking for you son and we will find you, and we love you more than anything in the world. You have a lot of people who love you and are looking for you. Buddy we’ll find you. Daddy will find you.

Mother (JM): We’ll never stop looking until we get you home.

(a) Both father (VDK) and mother (JM) are speaking at the same time, and give the impression they are producing language in reverse. What they are potentially producing is of interest – enough for me to note it. But I cannot claim that it is correct.

Firstly, language solely from the father and solely from JM can be differentiated. But first we will get an overall picture of what it sounds like by the speech of both together. The dominating voice is mostly the father’s.

We ‘nounce swee dead/We ‘nounce sweet head  

FS: JDK: Daddy will find you/JM: We’ll never stop looking

Note: there does appear to be ‘who’ at the beginning, but I have not included it here.

Here the sibilance ([s] sounds) is provided by JM. So, we have something similar to ‘announce’, and the word ‘dead’. ‘swee’ is a problem, however; and the second alternatively is quite illogical.

Here is JDK’s speech alone:

We now full.   He dead.  

FS: Daddy will find you

I am not confident that this represents viable language.

we [you]

now – f[ind]

full[will f]ind – vowel like that in ‘full’; one mat entertain the possibility of ‘fool’, but there can be no certainty of it due to incorrect vowel.

‘e dead [Daddy] – no [h], so a suggestion of a possible [he] only. Sounds like ‘dead’, but alternative would be ‘Dad’.

Here is JM’s language alone (you will have to separate it out from Kunz’s stronger voice):

He killed – parts thrown.  

(note, before ‘he’ there is [n], however, this most likely represents ‘an’ he’, and I have not included it).

FS: [f.. never stop looking ] until we get you home

  • kill(ed) comes from [look]ing
  • parts comes from [stop]
  • thrown is an approximation of her voice; it is difficult with Kunz speaking over her. The vowel could be more like that in ‘threw’; however, there is the [n] in ‘never’ in the FS, so I consider ‘thrown’ a possibility.

Alternatively to ‘parts thrown’ – parts threw.  

Also, there is an extra syllable at the end; whether it is extraneous or not, I am unsure. The ending sounds like ‘move’ or ‘a move’.

He killed – parts threw, move

However, if ‘thrown’ is accepted rather than ‘threw’, the [n] takes the place of the [m], leaving ‘oof’ or ‘olf’. This sounds somewhat similar to wolf. If so, then it would read as:

He killed – parts thrown wolf.

  • If ‘he killed’, either it refers to someone killing, or it refers to the child being killed.
  • ‘parts thrown’ – well it would then refer to body parts thrown somewhere.

If ‘wolf’ was included:

  • This may either be seen as real involvement or imagined involvement by a wolf.

(b) This reversal occurs in the FS before the one above.

It approximates:

Kunz RS: We now freedom  

FS: Buddy we’ll find you

  • We now – f[ind you]
  • freedom is poorly articulated with a [w] and a [b] where I am assuming the [b] has some [m] qualities and is meant to be [m].

If meant to be freedom, one could assume that a feeling of freedom is gained by that aspect of the subconscious.

(c) In this one and the next one, we have words that may represent from/for the killer. They both come from ‘We’re looking for’ by JDK. This weakens its potential somewhat, and should only gain value depending on other words around it, grammatical correctness etc. Nevertheless, choice of words in the forward speech can also be influenced by the subconscious. In this one and the next one, it may have value, or it may be coincidental.

Kunz RS:  We ‘ear from the killer or We ‘ere for the killer or We are for/from the killer  

FS: …You have a lot of people love you and [are looking for you]

  • There was an initial, separate sound before the beginning of the reversals with the initial [f] followed by a vowel sound. I have left it off for clarity.
  • After ‘we’, the syllable is open to different possibilities.
  • An unclear [f] syllable then occurs, which seems to have a quality of an approximate and vowel in it. There is no [m]; however in normal speech, at times the [m] can assimilate into the following sound and largely disappear. It is unclear, but may represent ‘from’ or ‘for’. Choice of word should depend on what makes grammatical and logical sense.
  • [k] in ‘killer’ also has a [p] quality due to plosiveness. However, an assumption should be made of ‘killer’.

This reversal has uncertain structures, but is worthwhile noting in case it can lend something to better, more substantial evidence.

(d) Kunz RS: ¹We now, 4 wheel now – ²See you’re from the killer  

FS: ²[We’re lookin’ for you s]on ¹[and we will find you]

  • See you’re could alternatively be ‘See ‘er’ (as in ‘See her’)
  • from the killer – as above. The [f] syllable is unclear, so it is just a guess.
  • vowel shorter than if ‘wheel’ was spoken in isolation; however, this would be normal in speech

(e) Kunz RS: But I’ll bury  

FS: [You have a lot of p]eople who love you

  • As far as speech is concerned, ‘but I’ll’ is quite normal. Quickly spoken, this is acceptable.
  • ‘Bury’ is only an approximation. It can sound like something else. [r] tends to be projected; You could even have ‘Bowie’, but this wouldn’t make any sense!

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10. VDK talks over JM. It appears that both are producing language. We shouldn’t assume that anything that sounds like language is genuine. Some will be coincidental. Therefore, the reversals below may be a combination of genuineness and coincidence. VDK mentions what could be ‘weir’ (twice). For this reason, it is worth taking note.

Here is the forward speech: 

JM: If somebody has him they’ll eventually bring him back. They, somebody will come forward.

VDK: Somebody will come forward wondering where this child has come from ….

Here is the audio of both people speaking together. We will break it down into parts after this. 

VDK: My fuck to lash to their weir. Know it all. Mark all weir [mus(t)].

JM:  A road map. A win must get. I’m near. Wheels never late/led

My fuck to lash to their weir (VDK’s voice)/Her road map – a win must get/A road map that we must get (JM’s voice) 

My fuck [come from] – First word is ambiguous, however, as there is /m/ from the FS, I will assume at this point that it is ‘my’.

to lash [child has] – This is the closest word to the sounds.

to their weir wond[ering where thi]s – an assumption is being made that the word is ‘weir’ in light of the importance of the reservoir.

A second comment follows directly on from the first one (I have separated them in the audio)

Know it all

Know it all [forward won]dering – [f] disappears; vowel [o] moving to the [f] gives a sense of [ll] in reverse; know it comes from [d won].

Following is a third comment. In light of the importance or ‘weir’, it is worthwhile considering.

Mark all weir 

I have removed ‘mus(t)’ for sake of clarity, and because it may not affect its validity. What is interesting, is directly in concert with these words, Jessica Mitchell states in reverse ‘I’m near’ (see below).

Mark all – somebody [will come] – don’t get ‘all’ mixed up with JM who utters ‘a’ at that point.

weir – some[body w]ill – I am assuming it is ‘weir’ again

Jessica Mitchell section

Of course, the following is just an approximation of sounds. There is a fair amount of ambiguity happening. Yet, it does sound there is language, so it is worthwhile documenting aversion, but without claiming that it is there.

Her road map 

Her – for[ward] – A possible consonantal sound can exist as the initial from the FS [d]. The distortion of the [d] disrupts cues and it may be heard more as a velar like a /k/ sound. However, it is also weakened, and may be  perceived as [h] instead due to the aspiration.

road – [for]ward – A stop-like consonant may be perceived in place of FS [f]. On close listening this could be closest to [g], however [d] is being assumed here.

map – [come] forward The ending is ambiguous, and of course could be a /k/ sound from the FS [c].

So, clearly, there is ambiguity, and therefore uncertainty as to whether it constitutes a reversal or not.

A win must get/that we must get (JM)  

A win/that we – someb[ody will] – A general listening gives a sense of ‘we’, however, ‘win’ is possible. Perception of an [n] ending on closer listening, and natural assimilation into the following [m] would occur anyway.  ‘A’ is ambiguous; it could be meant to be something else such as ‘that’.

Here it is as (a) win

must get – they some]body – [g] is perceivable between [y] and [s] in the FS. One may perceive it as ‘more scared’, which should be kept in mind as an alternative; however, on close listening there is a short ‘ma’ sound before the sibilant. Nevertheless, the duration of ‘get’ is out of whack with the duration of other words, making it more like the duration of ‘scared’.

I’m near 

I’m near – [bring him back] – FS [k] disappears and [m b] allows [m] to produce ‘I’m’. RS /n/ comes from FS [ng]. FS [b] disappears leaving [r].

JM states this directly behind VDL’s ‘Mark all weir’. ‘I’m’ would either refer to herself, or even possibly her child stated in the first person, indicating the child was near the weir.

Wheels never late/led  

Wheels – even[tually] – [t] creates the sibilance; [l] comes from [ll].

never [even]tually

late/led [they’ll]

Discussion

Some of this is potentially interesting – that Kunz appears to say ‘weir’ twice, that he seems to say ‘know it all, mark all weir’, and behind this JM appears to say ‘I’m near’. If ‘A win must get’, this may simply mean she wants her child back. Those with a different view, may believe that she wants to be successful in getting out of this situation. With ‘wheels’, I have noticed the reference to vehicles by VDK as well as Isaac Reinwand, so it is worth noting, but may not mean much.

This post will look at some reversals posted by someone who has a website using speech reversals to investigate crimes. On the website are many documented reversals from entities related to the DeOrr Kunz case. The documenter of the reversals has claimed knowledge/guilt by the child’s parents in his disappearance. These claims have apparently upset a number of people involved in the case, including the family of Deorr Kunz Jnr. Regardless of whether the child’s parents have any involvement in his disappearance, an analysis of the reversals shows that they lack accuracy and value as speech reversals, and my opinion is also that the person’s interpretation of the apparent reversals lack worthwhile value (A section of the first reversal below [reviewed and revised here] is probably the only one of any note). It is my understanding that he has no association with David Oates and Reverse Speech Enterprises, and has had no training through David Oates’ organisation. The website address is http://backwardspeech.com/category/deorr-kunz-case/ .

Deorr Kunz Snr (The child’s father)

(1) Now they knows we shooting more kids than they’ll kill ‘em   

  • The end of the reversal occurs at the end of ‘shooting’. However, the reversal is ‘Now they knows we shoot him’, where the [m] comes from the [m] in the FS (FS: they told [me she was on the other line]).
  • ‘More kids’ – [m] can be gained as a continuation from the [m] in ‘shoot him’. There is an apparent [s] from the aspiration of the [t] in the FS, which places an [s] before the documented [k] in ‘kids’ in the RS. There is no [s] at the end, however. The ending has [th] from ‘they told’. It is unclear what this section could be (if anything). It sounds something like ‘morsgive’, giving the final [th] a more labial quality to create a possible [v].  One could start to offer possibilities, accepting distortion in the sounds, like, must give, most give, or even more scared, but it should be let go.
  • There is nothing documentable in the rest of it. Certainly not ‘than they’ll kill ‘em’, where ‘than they’ll’ is something like [namakh] before the [c] on ‘come’ is articulated.

(2) Survey had to find an ideal spot here I know that he hid.  

FS: They have torn that creek upside down and in and out for divers

The approximate sounds that occur:

Survyad (?) cryinin/fryinin an idel spocker; shinero (?) my/by head/he ‘ad (? represents an indiscriminant sound.

  • Not enough evidence for ‘survey’
  • ‘to find’ can be projected into it; however, the syllable ‘in’ before ‘an’ is missing from the documentation.
  • ‘an ideal’ can be projected into it.
  • ‘spot here’ – not enough evidence (like ‘spo’kr’).
  • here I know that he hid – !!!??? How did the documenter get that?

There is nothing documentable here.

(3) Why looking they’ll never see it, stump on.  

FS: Not much space around there he could go

Approximate sounds:

Whyge look ee towa  nar’l see it; shtump on.

There is nothing documentable here.

(4) When she pulled out I hid we left him  

Forward: [with them and they had our location]n

Approximate sounds:

A shake pullorada I hid munethyl

The only sounds that occur is ‘I hid’. There is nothing documentable here.

(5) Her knee prevent me going down it  

FS: [and not knowing never being there], I knew I was in trouble

Approximate sounds: Her knee prevent nyorn darnit

  • ‘Her knee prevent’ is reasonably there
  • There is some semblance to ‘down it’
  • ‘me going’ [nyorn] does not bear any resemblance.

Only the first 3 words sound like they are there.

(6) Hammers they’ll  find him 

FS: I didn’t want to risk [getting halfway through my] talking to 911 and have it cut off.

Approximate sounds: Hammers to fih-n thig

  • Hammers – yes
  • they’ll – yes, possible
  • find – could be a [b] initial; [n] disappears
  • him – at the [t] in ‘gettin’ a possible [th] can be perceived; the end is [g] or a nasal [ng]

The last two words are poor. It lacks value as a reversal.

(7) Yeah this idiot notion 

FS: I’m not sure what day it is today

What I hear: Yeah the city had notion

  • this idiot [day it is t]oday – the sounds are like ‘the city had’

Comprehensible words appear, but not the ones documented.

(8) Merse the first one 

FS: … but he moves pretty good [and that was our concern]. He he was right with us …

Sounds approximate: Nurs’n crowzalwoni or (Pers’n)

  • first one [and that was our c]oncern– there are 4 syllables, not two.
  • [c] instead of [f]
  • [p] instead of [m] in ‘merse’

There is potentially something here:

Therefore, a possibility is ‘Person/Nursin’ – crows’ll want it

(9) Boy get fumid ember flash his nose 

FS: that [turns his head for a minute, they move, they go]

Sounds are something like : Woai geth fumid emmr fdlasiznurs

There are two different tonalities. The first:

  • Boy – definite [w] as an initial
  • Get – probably OK
  • Fumid – seems OK
  • emmr – the [m] could be heard as [b] in general listening

The second:

  • flash – [f] possibly can be seen as beginning it; there is really an [fdl]; a sibilant at the end, closer to [s] than [sh]. There is at least some possibility that it is meant to be ‘flash’.
  • his – possible
  • nose – a sense of a sibilant occurs on the end; vowel is similar to vowel in ‘nurse’.

As a reversal, it is highly suspect. I would be very careful about making claims about it.

(10) This officer a damned threat  

FS: [There’s, might, there’s a possi]bility that he …

Approximates: This opizer a damned zret

Sounds are reasonably close to documented reversal. ‘zret’ could be meant to be ‘threat’, and ‘opizer’ could be meant to be ‘officer’.

Deorr Kunz (The child’s grandfather)

(11) Voice the cult wounded     

FS [they don’t walk uphill]

  • wounded [they don’t] – sounds something like ‘ondith’; ‘wounded’ can be projected into it easily.
  • the cult [walk up] – sounds like ‘bu-kul’
  • voice – approximates ‘woikh’ where [kh] sounds like a frication occurring around the velar region. Perhaps if the frication was more like an [s] sibilant, one could entertain the possibility of the [w] being meant to be a [v]. However, there are two problems with it, not one.

Too dissimilar to be considered worthwhile.

(12) I know was one of the Lemhi cult now risky  

FS: He could not walk on level ground without falling down

Ni know of – was woval lowlock, thou risky

  • Lemhi – wal[k on le]vel – sounds like something like ‘lowlo[ck]’or ‘wolock’. One may even project the word ‘wedlock’ into it in a general listening.
  • was one of the – lev[el ground withou]t – one can’t expect that these short weak words [one of the] will come out clearly even in forward speech. It is deteriorated, though,  and evidence is not adequate to be certain. There would have to be strong evidence surrounding.
  • I know – a 3rd syllable is present at [fa]lling down to sound something like ‘know of’
  • cult [walk] – really ‘cul’, but of course, an alveolar [t] will often assimilate with an alveolar (or other consonant) in the initial of the word immediately following, and the ending will not be perceived clearly.  There is a reasonable length pause, though, to the following word, so this reduces the strength of the documented word as a possibility.
  • now risky – initial alveolar sounds more like [th] or [d]; risky seems OK; it could be meant to be ‘now risky’.

Some of the words in the documented reversal are possible. Lemhi is not there, however.

(13) Farmfields dump, Shell diesel pump  

FS: They could have coached him down, [muffled his voice, muffled his mouth] and headed through the trees and he’d never be seen.

One can’t just expect RS to be well-formed linguistically as that doesn’t always happen in FS. You only have to hear how poorly formed the second ‘muffled his’ is in the FS. There has to be reasonable evidence, though, that the sounds in the RS is what one claims they are. A ‘big picture’ listening of the whole reversal is important, as it is in FS, and even if some sounds don’t seem to match on close examination, it may very well be what was heard in a general listening. However, this is not always the case. The big picture listening should be compared with a close examination of what is happening at a segmental and phonemic level.

  • Farm [mouth] – this is reasonable as the fricative is similar to [f].
  • fields – muff[led his] – a fricative sound occurs, but it is like an [z] with some characteristics rather than [f]. Two strong, clear syllables producing ‘zeth’l’.
  • dump rather than [d] in ‘dump’, one can hear either [f] at the point of mu[ff], or project into it an [th] or [p].
  • Shell – is possible
  • diesel – muff[led his] – in a general listening one can project an [s] sibilant, but it isn’t actually there. One can hear [d] as an initial; the [s] in ‘diesel’ is another alveolar stop (without the initial it sounds like “it’ll”).
  • pump – [muf]fled – initial can sound like [p], so this approximates documented word.

‘Farm’ and ‘Shell’ can be heard as examples of the sounds. ‘fields’ is not there. ‘dump’ most likely not either. ‘diesel’ can be projected into it, and ‘pump’, too.

The second half is more accurate than the first half.

Sheriff Bowerman

(14) They lying nervous they’re doubtn’ that they’re killers none of em make it  

FS: … taken voluntarily taken polygraphs and right now those ….

  • They lying nervous – [s and right now that tho]se have been – Documenter left an extraneous sound at the start of the reversal [ood]. They (or they’re) is reasonable; lying is a possible representation of the sounds; no [v] in ‘nervous’.
  • they’re doubtn’ – tak[en polygraphs]- to hear the initial, you would have to start after the end of the long [s] and at the point of release to get an impression of a [th] or [d], otherwise it begins with [s]; also, at the end of ‘they’re’ on close listening (at the [g] in FS), [b] occurs. The remainder is similar to ‘dogma’ [en pol] – The [n] assimilates to the [p] leaving an impression of [m]; the release of [p] produces constriction in the throat leaving an impression of [g].
  • that they’re killers – volun[tarily taken] – ‘that’ is actually the ‘ma’ from ‘dogma’; ‘killers’ – [k] is more [d] from the position of the tongue close to the alveolar ridge in ‘[ly t]ake’’. Probably sounds more like ‘dealers’. They’re [tak] – most like ‘get’.
  • none of ‘em [n volun] – sounds like ‘no ob’n’ or ‘no ob’m’.
  • make it – [taken] – it can be like ney get’ (maybe representing ‘they get’) or ‘may get’

‘nervous’ is highly doubtful; it isn’t doubtn’, killers is highly doubtful as well; none of ‘em’ unlikely to be there. There are a couple of potential statements here. The first statement ends at ‘dogma’ and moves quickly to the second statement. (‘dogma’, of course, isn’t perfectly shaped, for example there is an aspiration at [g]; I present it as a possibility). The section does gives the impression of language being spoken. This section may be heard in the following way:

They’re/They lying now – Messiah dogma or alternatively, They’re/They lyin’ – their Messiah dogma

  • now or their comes at [right]
  • For ‘Messiah’, [m] can be gained from [n] in [‘n right]; the faint [b] at the end would have to be ignored .

The next statement is like ‘Get dealers no ob*/Get dealers is no ob. Last part – ‘n they get’/may get. ‘Get dealers (is) no ob; ‘n they get’.

*objection

(15) Klein had ruined the answers  

FS: … tips of sightings and of course that slows us down, we have to take those [seriously and and rule them out]

  • Klein had – the[m out] – [n] is [m]; the initial could be perceived as [t] or [k]
  • ruined [‘n an’ rule’] – sounds similar to ‘woo-nan’; there is also an extra [n] following
  • the answers [seriously an’] – [th] comes at [n] and is acceptable; ‘an’ comes at [ly] and does not sound like ‘an’ – this part sounds like ‘they’ll; ‘swers’ comes from ‘sers’. So, this is like ‘they’ll sers’.

RS has an issue with m/n – any acceptance of an [n] for an [m] would depend on how well the rest of the reversal is shaped, and other factors. There is a lot of imprecise sounds  here, and this shouldn’t be documented.

(16) Klein careless  

FS: 4 to 6 feet of snow in there [so right now]

  • Klein [now] – the beginning is an aspirated ‘hw’, and so the velar position of the [w] approximant can allow one to project into it [kl]. Also, with this projection, it can sound like ‘client’
  • careless [so right] – There is no [c]; the [t] in FS is assimilated into the [n] in ‘now’; it becomes similar to ‘errors’.

Therefore, if we assume a ‘meant’ [kl] beginning, there is either ‘client errors’ or Klein errors’.

(17) Tie the Klein  

FS: [now it’s a vast] area that it there’s just one way in

  • the Klein [now its a] – [kl] comes from projection into [it] in the FS. There is an alveolar sound (e.g., l or t); however, there is a ‘click’ at [ts] that occurs which can give one an impression of [k]. [l] is a projection into it. With [ts] is the FS, it also sounds like [sk]. ‘the’ is [va], however, flexibility should be permitted with ‘the’ as variation also happens in FS.
  • tie –v[ast] – this sounds reasonable

One would have to accept that the subconscious was attempting to produce ‘Klein’. Phonological uncertainty, a lack of language in the reversal (shortness), and a lack of reference to Klein limits this somewhat.