Isaac Reinwand – Deorr Kunz case

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Investigation of audio samples related to Deorr Kunz case – Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell

Vernal Deorr Kunz, Jessica Mitchell – Reverse Speech of 2016 interview

Isaac Reinwald was at the campsite with the family on the day of Deorr Kunz’s disappearance. Here are some potential reversals from an interview with him in January 2016.

1. At the end of the interview, Reinwald states that there is nothing else that he wants to add. The reversal can suggest that there is an indication that the child was driven away. The use of the pronoun ‘your’ should be noted. Pronoun use is important in understanding the communications of subconscious personalities. It is like his subconscious is addressing Vernal Kunz and Mitchell by using the second person pronoun, if it refers to the mother and father.

RS: Sign your son driven  

FS: [no there’s nothing else] I would like to say.

sign your – noth[ing else] – the [i] provides for the [y’] in the RS; sign is heard behind [ng els].

son [noth]ing – the [th] provides a frictive/sibilant sound for the [s] in ‘son’.

driven  [no there’s] – [th] can be perceivable as [v]; the [r’s] in FS ‘there’s’, with its hard fricative sound, and perhaps with some influence of the following [n] in the FS nothing as a stop consonant, provides a sense of [dr] in ‘driven’.

2. This can indicate someone (needing to) park closer (if ‘him’ refers to the child). Reinwald had been asked what he thinks could have happened. There are other possible reversals behind the forward speech, however, they seem less to address the topic of the case, and seem more to be mental meanderings. Reinwand mentions a wolf or other animal as a possibility, but where he says ‘that’s .. my .. opinion’ he continues to talk about a vehicle.

RS: Park to him closer   

FS: or a wolf may or something might have dragged him off; [that’s well, my huh, op]inion is.

park – hu[h op]inion – [p] comes from the release of [p] in the FS; a sense of [k] comes from the constriction in the velar region at the end of the aspirated /h/.

to him [my huh] – [t] is perceivable once again where constriction occurs (as above).

closer [that’s well] – FS [th] and [t] disappear to allow [ser] in closer; there is constriction at the beginning of the reversal before [ll] in ‘well’ allowing some perception of a [c].

3.  A number of potential reversals occur behind this section of forward speech. The larger utterances are interesting, as are some of the individual words. He appears to use the word ‘raider’. Of course, a raider is one who raids – a raider enters and takes. Raiders exist today, as they did a thousand years ago. He seems to use the word ‘castle’ close to this reversal (I haven’t included that here) although some of the sounds alongside it may just be gibberish; He seems also to use the words ‘art thou’, oddly enough.

Interestingly, he uses language indicating seeing (someone) with someone else (raiding), seeing someone do “it”, and a gun, and a killing when he was near.

We are dealing with the subconscious. We need to be careful about what, and who the information is referring to. Do the reversals refer to the case at hand, or perhaps some earlier experience of Isaac? External occurrences trigger past memories and experiences, so we need to be careful when making claims.

(a) RS: Didn’t I see you off with the raider?

FS: looks like I haven’t been coope[rative with the police, and they] they don’t know what’s going on.

didn’t I [and they] – a semblance of a stop sound was produced at the end of ‘and they’ in the FS, allowing for the initial [d] in RS.

see you p[olice] the [l] has weakened allowing perception of the RS words.

with [the]p – th e[p] has weakened into a mild aspiration allowing it not to influence the RS.

the raider – coope[rative] –  In reverse, some sense of [r] occurs following [v] in FS; there is actually a double vowel produced at [i] allowing a longer RS vowel as in [ai]. ‘The’ is simply the [v] in FS – there is plenty of flexibility in sounds that seem to represent ‘the’; this also occurs in FS.

We need to ask who is “I” and who is “you”. Understanding what the mechanisms of RS are will help understand referent words. We need to consider who the raider is. More information is needed to provide supporting evidence. But, a raider is someone who has come in from the outside and departed, taking something.

“I” would be Reinwand. ‘Off with the raider’ means leaving with the raider. Does ‘you’ refer to the child, or someone else?

Immediately following this reversal are a couple of identifiable words – power, and castle. The other sounds seem to be gibberish. However, there are perceivably other words if cut at the right place. This is a danger, however, if a reversal is started at the wrong position. However, I find the word ‘castle’ of interest in the pattern of reversals.

(b) RS: Sting it surrender; they see(n) him do it

FS: [the way the media sees it and everything it’s] … looks like I haven’t been cooperative …

sting it – every[thing it’s]

surrender [an’ every]

they – s[ees]

see’d him [media s]ees

do it [The way th]e media

The obvious [d] at the end of ‘see’ may not be problematic. In the overall language it could be considered as being meant to be [n] as in seen. Alternatively, the ‘ed’ is simply representative of the ‘see’ as past tense, just as one who was lacking in education might utter – which would indicate here something about the personality aspect that is communicating.

The questions here are:

  • How is ‘sting used here – for example as a verb form of the noun indicating an operation to uncover an illegal operation? Or something else, such as a violent attack?
  • Who is ‘him’ and ‘they’?
  • What does ‘it’ refer to as the object of the action ‘do’?

(c) Typical in RS, I believe, is that reversals are often a series of comments, and a comment following often has no pause before it to separate it from the previous one. In this case, if realisation of a separate comment does not occur, one can easily interpret the reversal incorrectly. The following reversal may have three (or even four) parts. The sections need to be separated to hear more clearly, there can be no pause between parts. I have written the reversal the closest to the sounds as may constitute language. Of course, just like in forward speech, it does not mean that each word is correct, as language becomes distorted. ‘Art thou’, of course may be meant to be something else. ‘Castle’ can be heard close by. ‘Castle’ may have triggered a medieval association, hence the words ‘art thou’.  Nevertheless, there is something interesting about it in the whole context of the reversal group (as mentioned earlier). He uses the word ‘closer’ again, but here he says “I”. The tone and style of the reversal is similar to the forward speech. The whole reversal is below, followed by each part.

RS: Serious, art thou a gun, and they kill, when I got closer  

serious, art thou a gun  

and they kill  

when I got closer  

FS: [I felt that kind of way, then, an’ an’ I got, I thought too it’s] just because …. The way the media see it ..

serious [too it’s] – The [t] in ‘it’s’ disappears allowing an uninterrupted sibilant [s], and the [t] on ‘too’ transforms into a sibilant at the end of the RS word.

art [thou]ght

thou a– g[ot I th]ought

gun a[n’ I g]ot

an’ they kill [way then an’] – [th] in the FS can be perceived as [k] allowing for ‘kill’.

when I – k[ind o’ w]ay –

got [that k]ind – [th] can be perceived as a stop consonant; [g] is perceivable as the FS draws close to [k].

closer [I felt] – the frication of [f] sounds like [s] in reverse; the [t] in the FS, can be perceived a [c], although it can also be perceived as [t].

5. In the forward speech Reinwald tells the interviewer that he is not permitted to disclose information. The interviewer states immediately following that it will all come out in court. Reinwald, in reverse, states that (the) court is in chamber, which means that  it is not an open court. Therefore, his information cannot be made public.

RS: Court’s in chamber  

FS: Reinwald: Yeah, I’m not supposed to disclose any in[formation still]. I’ve been asked not to. Interviewer: I guess that will all come out in court.

court’s [still] – One can perceive an ambiguous consonant at the beginning, which could be heard as [c], or [p]. In light of the forward speech and the rest of the reversal, we can make an assumption of [c].

in chamber – in[formation] – although frication can be heard from [f], there is a perceptible plosive that gives an impression of [b] following [m] in the RS. The [ch] comes from the [ti].


A number of potential reversals occur behind:

FS: I said I’d be kinda, t, I would, do, really be surprised because I wouldn’t think someone, you know, people, would do, somebody like those [two would do some]thing like that, you know.

1. RS I said do it  

FS: I wouldn’t think someone, you know, people, would do, somebody like those [two would do some]thing like that, you know.

I said [do some]thing

do it [two would]

Just where he states he wouldn’t think the parents would do it, he makes this reversal. Note, it is not in the past tense, and it is more like an urging to do it.

Immediately before this reversal and joining it is something that roughly sounds like ‘hide film’, however, linguistically it has problems. Yet, perhaps the possibility of it should be kept in note.

We need to be careful about interpretations and what reversals relate to. The next three reversals could have a connection to something else, earlier in Reinwand’s experiences.

In the following reversal, the second sentence sounds like one with a condition or impediment affecting speech, although, in his forward speech, Reinwand also speaks in a similar way in places.

2. RS: Received dealer. We did right to nark his brothers ou[t].   

FS: I said I’d be kinda, t, I would, do, really be surprised because

Received [be sur]prised – enough frication occurs around [b] tp perceive a possible [v]

dealer [really] – a clear [d] occurs at the end of ‘really’ and before [b]

We did right – he was stumbling over his speech. Where he utters [w] in ‘would’, there is a fricative manner, and one may get the impression of [v]. However, I have taken the view that he may be saying ‘we did right’ in RS. If we looked at ‘we give right’, we would then have to accept that the obvious [d] he uses is [g]; [w] comes from the vowel rounding after [d].

to nark his/him [be kinda t] – in an overall listening one would get the impression of ‘his’, although the [s] occurs at [b] in the FS is mostly like [m], although there is mild frication occurring. Just like in FS, one cannot rely on the individual sounds occurring and must follow the overall sense of what someone is saying; therefore, here ‘his’ makes sense. ‘Nark’ here is used as a berb and means to inform/tell on.

brothers ou(t) [I said I’d b]e – [b] occurs at the onset of [b] in the FS; [r] is possible at [d] before onset of [b]; [th] is perceivable at the lightly pronounced [d] in ‘said’. There is an assumption that the last word is meant to be ‘out’.

3. RS: Ignore his money  

FS: I wouldn’t think someone, you know, people, would do,…

Ignore – peop[le would d]o – a nasalised [n] seems to occur at [d]o providing perception og [g]; [n] occurs at [d] in ‘would’.

his/this money – [you know peop]le – [s] is possible from an aspirated [p]; [m] comes at the movement between [w] and [p] in the FS.


The next reversal can sound like “Boy/Why has a heaps o’ deals, saw him do it”. In this example it appears to be two comments – “Boy/Why has a heaps o’ deals” and “Saw him do it”. Of course the ‘a’ kind of ruins the grammar of it a little. One should always examine closely where a comment ends and another one begins. In RS, you often don’t get pauses between comments. Below, I have offered an alternative, however, I remain uncertain about the first half of the reversal (I have separated the two parts in the audio):

1. RS: Boy/Why has a hit. Said deals, saw him do it.  

I have no problem with ‘saw him do it’, and the ‘deals’ as well. The rest, there is uncertainty as to what it is meant to be.

FS: Um. [it was mostly just because of how] the social media was reacting, and my, um, my attorney, my lawyer I was said that it would might be better, ought not to say anything until they know exactly what’s going on in the case.

Why/Boy [how] – ‘why’ is the closest approximation, however, the near articulation of the lips may also mean it is meant to be ‘boy’.

has a hit – ju[st because o’ h]ow – [b] in the FS has weakened enough to perceive a possible [t], although this cannot be certain; [c] has disappeared leaving [h] in its place; [a] sounds like ‘the’ on examination, so itcould alos possibly be ‘has the hit’ (the strong [z] sound in ‘has’ just masks the following word).

Said deals – mo[stly] jus]t – [ls] in ‘deals’ comes from [stl] in the FS; [d] is perceivable before the reverse onset of [j]; there is a high level of frication occurring from the [s] in ‘heaps’ through the [j] – I am assuming that it represents the word ‘said’, although I am uncertain.

saw ‘im [most]ly – the two words coming together is natural as in FS.

do it [it was] – [d] comes from the short, hard [s] in ‘was’

If it is ‘hit’, then we have to look at either drugs, or a physical impact. The word ‘deals’’ could make it associated with drugs, however, this is not necessarily so. We must be careful with any single interpretation. As we are dealing with Reinwand’s subconscious, are we dealing with a comment made about a third person – ‘him’ and possibly ‘boy’ with both either being different people or the same person? Or, is it a semi-autonomous personality aspect of Reinwand commenting about Reinwand himself? Also, do we assume that a reversal will be speaking of the actual topic at hand (Kunz case), or is it a triggered response to a past experience/memory?

We can get useful information, however, we must be careful of interpretations and claim-making.

Another reversal was found in this section:

2. RS: Hurry all down metres, down by M/Stand by M   

Here, I am assuming the two words for ‘down’ are there. This may represent a true fact, or just be an imagining stimulated from discussion of the case.

Hurry all [lawyer] – [h] comes from aspiration at the end of the FS word; [r] from [r]; [y] from [y] as a high front vowel.

down [my l]awyer – the [n] assimilates to the following [m], which is a normal linguistic process; [d] comes from the onset of the alveolar [l].

metres – a[ttorney m]y – [t] can be perceived from [n] in the FS; [s] comes from the frication from [t].

down [my at] – obviously there is no [n], and the word can sound like ‘damn’. However, it is quite natural for [n] to assimilate to a following [m].

by M [my um]


Stand by M 

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